As I listened to Tembi Locke’s new audiobook, Someday, Now, I couldn’t assist however consider Fleetwood Mac’s hit 1975 track, “Landslide,” with its acquainted chorus: “Time makes you bolder/Even youngsters become old/And I’m getting older, too.”
In 2019, Locke’s first memoir, From Scratch, grew to become a Reese’s E book Membership decide and, quickly after, a worldwide hit miniseries on Netflix. All of us fell in love proper alongside together with her as she recounted her life with Saro, the attractive Sicilian man she met whereas learning overseas in Italy in faculty.
However life is stuffed with difficult transitions.
As we found within the e book and miniseries, whereas Tembi and Saro’s love for one another appeared transmutable from day one, it might finally need to take one other kind following his demise. She grew to become a widow to most cancers in her early 40s, a single mom elevating their adopted daughter Zoela.
In the summertime of 2023, Tembi discovered herself on the cusp of one other one in every of life’s most tough evolutions: Zo was leaving residence for school. She was caught in a transformative stage of parenting, the place you’re left to ask the massive, scary query: What does my life seem like with out the day by day cadence of mothering?
When it got here time for Zoela to depart for school, Tembi wanted a brand new method to body this chapter. So, she deliberate a “faculty moon” and booked a home by the ocean in Sicily for Zo, herself, and her new husband, Robert. Sometime, Now, advised solely as an audio expertise, faucets into that aching, joyful, sun-drenched, and wildly relatable journey.
We spoke with The New York Occasions-bestselling creator simply forward of its launch about why she rejects the concept of “empty” nesting, and why transitions are simply as a lot beginnings as they’re endings.
Scary Mommy: After listening to this audiobook, everybody goes to crave the consolation and love rooted in Sicily for you. Do you assume everybody has their very own model of “Sicily”? Or will we all simply must go there, as a result of I’m OK with you telling me that.
Tembi Locke: OK, so here is the factor — I’m at all times going to cosign on a visit to Sicily. If that’s what you wish to do and other people wish to do, I say go. However I do assume that every one in every of us has their very own Sicily, and it does not need to be removed from residence. Actually, generally it is very near residence, however it’s a place that’s restorative. It is a spot the place I prefer to say you possibly can run your fingers alongside the topography of your life, and actually perceive who you might be in a brand new manner. Perceive your previous, possibly ask your self the place you are headed. All of us want a spot like that, and if you cannot readily determine a spot, then I say decelerate, take into consideration what that’s for you, after which domesticate it.
SM: I really like each components of that as a result of, sure, I’ll completely take your recommendation and go to Sicily, however it’s good — that concept of getting someplace that feels sacred.
TL: I believe we do want sacred areas in a busy, noisy, difficult, generally isolating world, and the world is stuffed with them … It may be, and infrequently is, a park. It is bushes and it is a lake or a river, however these sacred locations are actually affirmative of life and really grounding for us.
SM: You’ve mentioned the phrase “empty nesting” by no means fairly match for you. Why does “re-nesting” really feel like a extra correct, and even empowering, method to describe this chapter of life?
TL: To begin with, the phrase ‘empty,’ let’s simply begin there. It is a detrimental. How am I going to outline my life by the absence of one thing? For me, it actually felt like I am unable to relate to that. My life feels very full. And in addition, I knew that our residence life was shifting and it was altering, but it surely wasn’t emptying out, the place there would simply be nothing within the wake.
It felt bleak … pessimistic. It felt somewhat pejorative, possibly gendered like, “Oh, ladies with the empty lives and the kids are gone, and now you don’t have anything.”
I used to be like, ‘I do not co-sign on that.’
So it was actually in speaking and occupied with it, and in many different conversations about how will we meet this second — an enormous change each within the lifetime of a mum or dad or mom and within the life of a kid, but additionally the entire household. I used to be occupied with reinvention and reimagining and all of it, which got here out of simply lots of conversations that I had with folks in my life, and that is what that is: We’re reimagining the nest, and we’re pouring into ourselves in a brand new manner as we reimagine our lives.
It felt optimistic; it felt hopeful. It honored the truth that there is a transition. It means that there must be some slowing down and possibly intentionality, but it surely wasn’t a finite ‘it is empty, it is accomplished, it is over.’
SM: True, all people appears at it as only a subtraction, however there’s addition there that is taking place too.
TL: The reality is, you aren’t accomplished being a mum or dad. Your relationship’s going to vary. That arc of that, it is not accomplished. Virtually talking, if we simply take a look at the economics of the world, many individuals keep residence and keep near residence, and but the nest nonetheless adjustments. You must reimagine the nest even when your baby does not go off to school however chooses to remain at residence and go to school, or stays residence and works. You are renegotiating your total dynamic as they start to individuate.
SM: You additionally discuss ‘letting go of your baby whereas nonetheless holding on,’ and I can not think about a mom who can’t relate to that. What’s your recommendation for balancing that stress?
TL: My first piece of recommendation is to acknowledge that that’s what’s taking place. The picture that is coming to my thoughts is the seesaw. Generally you are extra holding on, different instances you are extra letting go, however you are at all times attempting to strike that steadiness. I believe there is a model of it that is taking place all through motherhood. If I take into consideration the primary time I let my daughter go to nursery faculty for the entire day, I used to be a wreck within the parking zone, however I knew she wanted to do it, and I knew I wanted to do it.
One of many issues, on a really sensible stage, to consider once we discuss holding on and letting go is simply to be in dialogue along with your baby.
I attempt to body it as if we’re acknowledging that this factor is going on. We’re not going to bypass it or skip over it or faux prefer it’s not an enormous deal, however to acknowledge it after which to say, ‘What would you want in that scenario? What would really feel good? I stay up for doing this with you.’
I believe it is that setting the stage for that dialogue round inflection factors is de facto beneficial by way of us with the ability to titrate how we let go and the way we nonetheless maintain on … I am unable to maintain onto her early childhood; it is gone. However what I can maintain onto is the values and the connection that we constructed over all of that point.
SM: The school moon is an enormous a part of this e book…
TL: For me, it is a few second, similar to a honeymoon, that claims, ‘Wow, we simply did an enormous factor and our life simply modified … You completed highschool, and also you’re now starting that first step into your early maturity. Let’s take a second and simply acknowledge that.’
And it may be a tenting journey. You do not have to go to Sicily, though I am at all times right here for individuals who do wish to go to Sicily. It may be a weekend the place you simply fold into one another and be with one another and also you get off of what I name the bullet practice of actions round commencement, after which the actions to organize for school. What do we have to purchase? Further-long sheets? What number of blankets do we’ve got to convey? All of that. You may get so targeted on that that you just neglect, or you do not make area for, a sacred pause. And to me, the school moon is a sacred pause.
SM: What would you say to different mothers contemplating one thing like that?
TL: One, verify in along with your child … are they on board for this concept? And in that case, what will get them enthusiastic about it? As a result of they are going to have their very own concepts … It is gauging your kid’s curiosity after which a time, however finally you are going to say, ‘We’ll do that, however let’s do it a manner that feels good for each of us.’
Then I say ask them particularly what they want from it. I requested my daughter to plan the itinerary, not for your complete journey, however I am like, ‘Hey, you decide the place. Go inform us what we’re doing for 2 days. In the event you’re about to go off to school, you possibly can actually work out what we’ll do for you. You are able to do that type of planning.’ And that sense of possession was actually, actually highly effective.
The third factor I might say by way of the planning is to attach it to the second step, which is to depart area. As a result of what you do not wish to do is simply overschedule a time that is purported to be simply filled with discovery and rest — or because the Italians say, ‘Dolce far niente,’ the sweetness of doing nothing.
SM: You described this time within the e book as a interval of reclamation. What do you’re feeling such as you reclaimed for your self?
TL: What I discovered once I obtained there was that it was additionally a time for me to decelerate and for me to go, ‘Wow, I did a factor. I raised the human, and he or she’s about to go away.’ There was that stage of slowing right down to be with that.
The opposite factor that I discovered particular to Sicily, as a result of I’ve a lot historical past there, is — and I didn’t know this was going to occur — it grew to become this very full circle loop as a result of I had first come to the island with my daughter’s dad, my first husband Saro. To be there once more, he isn’t there, however she’s about to go off, it felt like, ‘Oh my gosh, this place and I’ve historical past,’ and I may honor numerous totally different variations of myself who had come to the island: the newlywed who’d come there, ‘OK, let’s have a look at if we are able to make household,’ to the widow, to me now on this new marriage and with an adult-ish daughter.
So I believe the factor that actually stunned me was how life-affirming it was. I believe that affirmation might be what gave me the muse to consider what was potential, as a result of 20-year-old me may have by no means imagined the me that was there for the school moon. Could not have imagined that world, and but there I used to be.
SM: Oh, that is actually a phenomenal manner to have a look at it. There’s such complexity relating to resurfaced grief. Do you’re feeling like that looms simply as giant with each passing milestone, or does it soften over time?
TL: That is such an ideal query, Julie, and I believe my reply adjustments. There are occasions when it nonetheless takes my breath away. The depth of it, even now, feels surreal. I am 13 years after passing, and there are moments, particularly milestone moments, the place the acuteness of the grief simply punches by way of. What I’ve realized is I understand how to be with it when it punches by way of another way, and that possibly softens your complete expertise of it punching by way of.
Early on when it got here on, I did not know what to do. I used to be laid flat and now I do know, ‘Oh, OK, it is right here with me. I’ll be with it.’ I needed to take a second. I’ll sit down, flip my cellphone off, look out a window, take some deep breaths, no matter it’s I must do in that second to take care of myself; these are the issues that remedy the intestine punch when it hits.
I do not imagine that point alone heals. I believe it is time and lots of processing and the work of grief. We will not simply be like, ‘Oh, I am not going to consider it, and time will simply deal with it.’ It is being with it. And if you find yourself with it over a time frame, I’ve come to grasp that when these moments of acute grief hit me, it’s an affirmation of affection and an affirmation of the life drive that he has, my beloved, and in addition that I’ve inside me.
It makes me get extra like, ‘Properly, life, I am right here, so what are we doing?’ It is so odd that it’s one thing that may be so bereft, however in case you journey that and also you enable it to essentially imprint you and be with it, it could actually impress you to be extra current within the life that you’ve.
SM: Now you’ve gotten this lovely blended household. One thing you discuss is that this huge leaping off level for fogeys when the youngsters are gone… What’s our dynamic with our companion going to seem like? Will we even have issues to speak about nonetheless?
TL: That may be a actual and severe query. I used to be assembly that second in a new-ish marriage, and Robert and I had by no means dated with no preteen or teen baby in our lives, so we would by no means simply been the 2 of us. I knew there was an invite on this life change for us, however I do really feel that it is vitally frequent to really feel a void. He had been stepdad, boots on the bottom, for these years of her life, and abruptly he is like, ‘I’ve all this time… what do I do?’ And I am asking my model of these questions.
One of many issues that I’d invite {couples} to do is to create bonding rituals to say, ‘OK, we do have extra time,’ we simply do. What’s a enjoyable factor that we each wish to do collectively that bonds us and that we ritualize? So if that is cooking Friday evening dinner, we ritualize it. It occurs each week, and we do it collectively. I believe that is crucial at this inflection level as a result of invariably throughout that point you might be collectively, you may have a second to verify in with one another about the way you’re doing and to plug into the connection, versus simply standing within the disconnection or standing within the void of what was.
The opposite factor is simply day by day contact factors, as a result of life is altering and curiously sufficient, empty nesting occurs in midlife regularly … a time when there are hormonal adjustments taking place in a household, in a relationship, and so it takes some attending to. It is not simply spontaneously simply going to occur.
SM: Wanting ahead, do you assume it’s potential that Sometime, Now may discover its method to the display like From Scratch did?
TL: Properly, I maintain all issues potential. Belief me, that is prime of thoughts … I am unable to say yay or nay, however I can say something is feasible.
SM: OK, we’re placing it into the universe! Additionally, I noticed on Instagram the place you shared somewhat of the story of your great-great-great-grandmothers, Mary Jane and Emma. Is that historical past one thing you would possibly discover in a e book in the future?
TL: Julie, I am sorry, have been you in my automotive with me this morning once I was driving to work? Are you having espresso with me within the morning? The reply, as you possibly can guess, is sure. I’d like to do a household memoir, if you’ll, that’s multigenerational alongside the matrilineal line. It scares me, however boy, I do know that I simply really feel like, Oh my gosh, I am driving towards an enormous unknown. I do not know what that is going to be, however on the opposite facet of it, there are some lovely discoveries that I do know will probably be had alongside the way in which. So, I am up for the journey of it.
This interview has been edited and condensed for readability.
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